I think that the greater factor was the ramifications of WWI. Not only that immense poverty and so on made these people very easy to being tricked into supporting Hitlers brutality. And also Hitler was a very good propogandist he slowly and methodically conviced the nation that there problems were from minorties. But at the same time there is no and never will be an excuse for these people supporting Hitler, there is no way that anyone can try and making that excuse. And the same goes for nations and others that gave into Hitler as well . . . there are not to many people that are not at fault for the rise of Hitler.
As a prenote, a warning of sorts, I just played a couple o' games o' rugby and I am tired and I took a couple too many shots to the head but nonetheless I am decided to write this blog anyway.
As you said Ben the people that aided Hitler were most defintely at fault for Hitler. And as Paul said that soldiers weren't totally to blame, but rather everyone was. So my problem with this is that we all admit that helping evil and even ignoring evil is evil in and of its self. Therefore when we turn and analyze our own country I think that we have to start placing responsibility on ourselves for the terrorism that we support and provoke all around the world.
If we look to the Vietnam War, it is one of the greatest examples of installing a horrible regime for the sole purpose that it would benefit us. We saw images of Monks burning themselves in disagreenace with the war. We installed a repressive regime with Diem-Sung at that lead who was more destructive to the people than the communists ever would be. In this circumstance we were responsible for the horrors that they government committed because we supported them, installed them, and praised them while we knew what was going on in that nation.
But these the Vietnam was, to no means, the only time that we have ever invoked a policy of this kind. Once again in an effort to fight the "communists" we supported governments in El Salvado, Guatamala, and Honduras that were repressing their people extensively. Repression is defintely a euphemism for the horrors that were being committed, such as mass murdering, executions of men and women on the streets void of any trial, and complete brutality. But as the US knew of all of this we continued to support these nations governments with weaponry and funding . . . I believe that makes us responsible to those actions. It is the same as the men and women who supported Hitler, they are guilty, and simiarly we are guilty.
Presently we are supporting the Phillipenes government with weapons and other sorts of funding to ruthlessly put down its nations people. It is wildly know amoung the forerunners of our nation that the government in the Phillipenes is acting ruthlessly and with out cause or reason. We members of the US can not continue to give money to governments that do not in the least extent even try to uphold standards that our own government tries to adhere to. Money not humanitarianism is the source of our International indeavors and that is incredibly detremental to the world.
In both Russia and China we are ignoring the horrible breach of rights that we as Americans believe that every man has the right too. China is one of the worlds leaders of ruthlessness and obstruction of all civil liberities. Russia is very similar in that the more and more we become friendly with them, the more and more we turn our backs to their policies regarding their own people. This next week Bush is going to chat with the Russian leaders another time, and there is no chance that he will bring up issues condeming the Russian government about their breaches of civil rights. This is something that we as the self acclaimed "police force of the world" must deal with. We are the most wealthy and the most capable of dealing with these situations and yet we do nothing, and that makes us guilty.
In Colombia we are supporting a government which is run by drug lords and murderers. We are basically keeping this government alive because of the money we supplement to it, and thus extending our own drug problems in our nation. There are an average of 50 kidnappings, murders, and other forms of this illigetiment government's abuse on a daily basis.
Our international policy is flawed. We give lots of money out to the world, but we put it in the hands of killers and murders because it will benefit us to a greater extent. If we didn't give this money out to these nations we would be doing the international community a far greater favor then shelling out the money that we need back at home. Ben has been right in the past when he said that we do do alot for the world. And he is correct again when we do do a lot of good for the world. But there are vastly to many cases when the things that we do support governments which horribly repress and murder their people, and that makes us responsible, and personally I don't like the feeling that my tax money is responsible for the killing of vast quantities of people all aroudn the world.
Although I continue to disagree with you Gross for reasons you refuse to comprehend, I will go along with your topic change. Assuming that in war, and under the influence of a tremendous amount of propaganda, German soldiers were often little more than young graduates of a society that Allied Sanctions ripped to shreds with the various treaties following the end of WWI. In my opinion, without this existing tension the Hitler's rise to power may have been significantly slowed or stunted. Thus, it is impossible to place all of the blame for the war and its atrocities on the Germans although no doubt some degree of blame does fall on those who undertook Hitler's mania. Bearing in mind they too faced horrible fates by being labeled "political undesirables." Somewhere along the line though, one or more factors disabled the conscience of Germans and allowed Hitler's atrocities to go on. In light of that, my question to you all is...
What played a greater role in disabling the moral conscious of the German people and army; the remorseless brutality of Hitler and his propaganda machine, or pre-existing factors that primed the German people to accept whatever form of Government/policy that could bring some kind of prosperity the fastest?
These days, many people claim that cultural and racial diversity is essential. There are quotas to make sure that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans get special opportunites to advance in society because of this high view of "diversity." I do not think that racism is non-existant, but I also believe that it is not such a major factor that entire groups of people are held down solely because of their race. I also believe that elites forget a very important factor when deciding what is diverse, that is the opinions and views represented. The color of ones' skin does not effect the way of thinking, and therefore if you hire a black person over a white person, you still may receive only one point of view. No diversity is accomplished, and in this "democratic" society, group thinking will take place and reason will be lost. The only way to ensure our most important freedom, one that is not constitutionally protected, freedom of thought, is to allow people to be exposed to many viewpoints and choose for themselves the right path. Instead of checking what skin color a person has, maybe universities should explore whether or not a potential faculty member of student will add new perspective and world view to the institution. That would benifit a free-thinking society much more than checking the "race" section.
Any soldier, any person, who does not stand up to evil when they see it is responsible for its existance and ultimately for its actions. Those soldiers had free will, and if you hold Hitler responsible for his actions, so too must you hold responsible those who carried out the orders. This is true for any situation, and not just hitler. Hitler is something that is so overused that it makes me sick. I guess that he is the only evil guy around that its politically correct to bash. Don't get me wrong, I hate Hitler with a passion, but others have also done evil things in history as well and get glazed over. Stalin is the most obvious example of this, as Gross has already alluded to. There are also many other evil mass murderers that get glazed over like Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein. I know that for a question like the one Gross posed, there is no easy answer. I will ask you all another very difficult question, would you forgive the soldiers who committed genocide? Simon Weisenthal wrote of such an experience in a hospital, when a Nazi SS soldier, on his deathbed, confessed to him of literally burning hundreds of Jews alive because he was following orders. The SS man wanted Weisenthal's forgiveness because he was a Jew. Weisenthal walked out of the room. Does the Nazi deserve forgiveness, and does Weisenthal have the ability to give it? I think he did the right thing.
I want to sort of change topics but I would like to try and corner some of you people first, so I am going to ask a pretty open question and ask you guys to respond to it, especially Mr. Abrahms.
The question goes something like this, "Were the German soldiers who listened to Hitler's words at fault during WW2? And were the countries and nations that added Hitler to the smallest degree and added in the killing of humans, at fault as well?"
My answer thus goes something like this. Everyone who did not condem Hitler and did not try and do something against him was impart at fault, no matter their race, religion, creed, sex, or anything else of the sort. Every nation who sent him money, guns, or anything else or even didn't do anything to try and stop him was at fault, and every soldier that supported Hitler was at fault as well. I believe in choice decision and there is no excuse for your own actions, ever. No matter the consequence of your decision they are still yours.
So if yall would get back to me with your answers I would love to twist them around and apply them to a seperately different arguement, hohohoho, because I am damn tired of people trying to run when the pressure is on, I want to see some people caught in the corner, because I know I run under that pressure as well and would like to see myself caught in that corner!
Paul the reason you aren't going to respond any further is because like usual you have nothing important/relevant/interesting/factual/intelligent to say, but this time you are choosing not to say it . . . for once. My remarks were completely valid.
And on to Jesse . . . the Geo makes it up to 90mph on a constant basis and it accelerates faster from 0-30 then do most cars because most cars nowadays are automatics which do to shifting restrictions and such manuals end up accelerating quicker. Jeff has plenty of leg room in that car and he has never bitched about it being to small for him, and he isn't exactly the smallest little girl I have ever seen. I fit like 6 people in there once and was debating picking up a hitchhiker as well. I used to sit in the back seats all the time when my sister was driving and I never found it uncomfortable to any degree. Oh and Jesse the Geo that we bought was blue booked at over $6000, and the car only costed $3000 while repairs on the sucker were an extra $2000, which were only needed because of the drivers of the car. Also most likely you have never had your knees in the dash because most likely Jeff was riding with me and therefore Jeff was in shotgun and you were in back, thus it would have been impossible for you to bash your knees against the dash, and I have never heard about Jeff banging his knee on the dash . . . ever. Now if you want to try and give some real reasons that the Geo is impractical then go ahead, but as I see it the proof of Jeff, Alex, John, myself, and all my sister friends never once complaining about that car completely frustrates your arguement.
Also Hummers, they are just the kings of all the stupid lousy wourthless SUV's out there. They are #1 in cars that break down the most with Saab right behind them. I believe that SUV drivers are terrorists if people who smoke pot are terrorists as well. I also believe that people in Hummers and SUV's are the stupid bastards who think that because they fell upon a heap of money that they have the right to drive on my lawn and rip the shit out of it.
Andrew, if you paid $5000 for your Geo POS they really saw you comming... Community service to get into NHS? Ridiculous, between doing homwork, and attempting to have at least a little bit of a social life, some of us need some time just to go brain dead. And Hanz, I agree with your comments on the H2, but Pauls WRX is more practacly then any Geo, Andrews "Rism" was made to hold 3 children, but try jamming 4 full grown adults in there and A. You can't get above 30 mph and B. You are in such pain from knees in the dash and shoulders in your face you want to die. Its like a fucking clown car.
At this point in time I would like to apologize for dignifying Gross's remarks with a response. On the subject of NHS though, this may be the only place on earth where we realize (or at least are willing to admit) the current futility of NHS at Hopkins. I am not a very big fan of Nate Wanderman or his predecessors as they have been content to use NHS as nothing more than a bullet on their college apps. Ben is willing to work to strip NHS of its unsavory reputation as futile by ensuring that it?s activities are targeted at the school as a whole not specific groups. The man knows what he's doing, and his work ethic and aspirations for NHS will bring legitimacy back to the group and can only make the school a better place for current and future classes.
What really pisses me off is that the H2 isn't even a Hummer anymore. In order for the car to be sellable to the general public, General Motors had to take away pretty much everything that made it a HumVee. They completely revised the chasis, so that it will now shatter when taken over too bumpy a road. In order to make the car comfortable, they added hundreds of pounds of junk to the top and passenger compartment, which severely altered the vehicle's center of gravity. That means that it's about as likely to tip over on a rocky mountain path as a tour bus. The axles are no longer made of the same high-grade metal. The engine is a watered down, anemic piss-pail compared to what the actual Hummers have. The H2 has a lower clearance and wider stance than the original, making it even more difficult to drive over rough terrain.
So all these soccer moms are buying is a bunch of useless metal. Even if they WANTED to take it off-road, it would be no better than your average SUV, if not, worse.
And sports cars are only a slightly less extreme version of the same disturbing trend; they're no more use than a geo metro, or a dodge neon. Paul, do you actually race your WRX? The only practical use I can think of for a fast car is in passing on the freeway: a fast car minimizes your time spent in the oncoming traffic lane. But you're still bound by the same driving laws that everyone else has to abide by, unless you take your unnecessary machine out to the Nevada flats or something.
Buying a comfortable, practical car is the best option. You don't need 250 horsepower, or a turbocharged V6. You need 4 wheels, seats, and an engine to move them places.
