Erik, that was a great argument. You are especially right that America must not be percieved as weak in the Arab world. Most of the protestors have no idea how diplomacy really works in the Middle East. I suggest everyone read From Beirut to Jerusalem by Thomas Friedman. It is not about Iraq, but the Lebanese Civil War, a conflict that ended 10 years ago. The book gives a great glimpse at the Middle Eastern mentality. In the middle east, force is respected, and weakness is taken advantage of. Another phrase I hear a lot is "inspectors work, war doesn't." Something a kin to this is posted at the school. What that phrase seems to be forgetting is without the threat of American and British force, those inspectors would never had gotten into the country in the first place. The Middle East is not Europe. Being pacifistic is suicide in that region.
On one side you had a bunch of radical leftists giving speeches that any kindergardner could come up with, like: Speaker, "War is Bad!"; Crowd, "Yeah!"
On the other side you had a bunch of people who actually were pushing for war, hoping it would come. "Nuke Iraq," how stupid is that? Who actually pushes for a war? That is a sign of true stupidity.
Jesse, you seem to be no different than the protestors, probably even worse. You would rather go and appease Sadam than confronting the fact that we are dealing with one bad mother fucker. According to you, the only bad thing he ever did was "kill a few kurds." How about over 100,000, and he didn't just shoot them, like he has done to thousands of his other countrymen, he gassed them! He used the one of most horrid weapons known to man to kill not only his enemies, but elderly, women, and little children. He also slaughtered thousands of Shiite muslims, as well as executing those in his inner circle. This includes several of his own son-in-laws. In the last 6 months, he has executed scores of his own generals. Do not fool yourself, Sadam is not a nice guy, and he is a brutal, EVIL dicatator.
Another one your two step plan for world peace, Jesse, is to give Iraq its dignity back. I agree completely. How can Iraq possibly have dignity while Sadam is in power? When Sadam is gone, and when Iraqis are able to choose their own destiny, then it will be on the road to getting dignity. By the way, the reason that Iraq is required to defend themselves with outdated troops, is because Sadam has had a history of aggression. He has attacked five of his neighbors and he was the first person in 50 years to use weapons of mass destruction of any type. YOU are not in second grade! Stop pretending that Sadam is Mr. Rogers! You know very little about the history of the middle east, and even less about its culture. The only thing that Sadam understands is force. That's the way the game is played in the Middle East. The only way that you will ever be able to get a MADMAN like Sadam Hussein to cooperate and play nice is to threaten him.
That post was nothing but a big joke. Franson, you need to learn to calm down. Or is humor not allowed on the a-times?
Andrew, what you just said was moronic and hateful. We need to get one of those nude protest going though!
As most of you know by now, there is a walkout at school tomorrow to protest a potential war. I want to know people in the forum's opinion on the event. I am all for freedom of speech. I think that the thought of the walkout is a healthy thing. On the other hand, the planned march on the gas station is pointless and foolish. Other than making the students of Hopkins look like complete schmuks and hurting a local business, what will that accomplish? Another very stupid thing is that it is taking place during school. The reason why it is happening when it is is because the people planning it know that they wouldn't be able to get anyone to show up after school or on the weekend. It isn't planned when it is to "make a bigger statement" because it is not that much of an act of rebellion. All that would happen to a student who participates is an unexcused absence.Overall, I support the idea of having a protest (although I do not agree with the message of supporting Sadam) and freedom of speech. I just think that it could be done differently.
I am not against the United Nations criticizing Israel, what I am against is how they are so concerned about Palestinians above all other oppressed people on earth. I don't see the United Nations speaking out for North Korean to be free from the tyranny of Kim Jung Il. I don't see the United Nations speaking out for people of countries where human rights are non-existant, like China. In fact, China can't be criticized in the UN because they would veto anything criticizing them (do I smell a fundamental flaw with the organization's structure?). Israel is criticized and no one else is for many reasons that I can't get into right now. The United Nations is incapable of taking on any of the world's major problems because of the overall concencus that it requires to do anything. By the way, the United Nation's record on terrorism, the issue that America is most concerned about is abismal. With the giant voice given to 3rd World dictatorships, the U.N. will never agree on even defining the term, none the less fighting it. In conclusion, the U.N. is horribly innefficient, and even when something is finally agreed upon it cannot enforce it. Because of this, the world's major problems are forced to be solved by the United States.
By the way, the United Nations is a giant threat to national sovereignty if it gets the power that you crave for it. They have already begun the preliminary stages of a World Tax Commission and are very exited about the prospect of an International Court of Justice. Based on the record of the United Nations, I know that they are not going to put any truly brutal war criminals on trial, because the Third World Hellhole they come from will be mad. You just wait and watch. The people they put on trial will be American or British soldiers or generals. The United Nations is quickly becoming a tool of the disordered world to attack the ordered one. Although they have no power right now to do this, you should be aware of the trends from the U.N.
Gross, your faith in a powerless, inefficient non-governmental organization is laughable. Even when the UN does speak up, which it rarely does because it requires everyone to agree, it doesn't enforce its own word. Even the resolutions are enforced, the UN needs the United States to enforce for them. You wanted some examples Gross, here are a couple just on Iraq that have so far been unenforced:
Resolution 688:demands that Iraq cease at once repression of its own people. Last year, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights found that tens of thousands of political opponents and ordinary citizens have been subjected to arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, summary execution, and tortured by beating and burning, electric shock, starvation, mutilation and rape.
Resolutions 686 and 687:Demanded that Iraq return all prisoners from Kuwait and other lands. As of last year, Kuwaiti, Saudi, Indian, Syrian, Lebanese, Iranian, Egyptian, Bahraini and Omani nationals remain unaccounted for -- more than 600 people.
One American is among them.
Resolution 687 : Requires that Iraq renounce all involvement with terrorism and permit no terrorist organizations to operate in the country. In violation of Security Council Resolution 1373, Iraq continues to shelter and support terrorist organizations that direct violence against Iran, Israel and Western governments.
I'm sure that Kofi Anan is a very well intentioned and nice guy, but his organization is powerless. It also acts in the interest of the wrong people. Do you think that dictators will appoint representatives who will work in the interest of their people, or the dictator? If you think that oil is influential to Bush, its influence is even greater in the United Nations. I don't need to get into details, but the United Nation has quite an appetite for passing resolutions about Israel but very little for helping the human rights of people in China or Sudan, or ending the Syrian occupation of Lebanan. I do not see how anyone can see the United Nations organization as legitimate, or worship it as you do Gross, when Sudan, where slavery is still legally practiced, is on the Human Rights Council!
I am so fucking tired of people blaming America for all the world's ills. They see poor and sick people in Africa, whose fault is it? America naturally! Why are people starving in Asia? America again! Get some fucking perspective please! What if America dissappeared? What if it never existed? Your choice what the world would be ruled by, Naziism or Stalinism. Whenever the countries who claim they are against us need help, who do they turn to? America! Even today, Germany depends on 70,000 troops in their country for defense. When Europe had trouble in the Balkans during the 90s, they could not solve their own problems, they needed America to clean up the mess. The United States gives 60% of the world's food aid, yet I never hear anyone meantion any of that! If we withdrew from the rest of the world, stopped giving aid to everyone, and said, "the hell with you guys," do you honestly think France or Germany could run things? The world would fall apart in two minutes! I am at the point now where I would love to do that.
Stalin was evil. He was the greatest mass murderer of the twentieth century. Stalin was just as horrific of a dictator as Hitler. That said, we had to ally with him. That was the only possible way we would have won WWII. That is the only way that Naziism would have been defeated. If Hitler was not stopped, there is no telling how many people he would have killed. There was no doubt that Hitler had his heart set on world domination, and would have eventually brought war to the United States if the United States did not bring war to him. Russia did not pose the great risk to the U.S. and the entire world that Nazi Germany did, and therefore, we had no reason to declare war on Stalin right after Hitler had declared war on us! I do not have one regret with allying with Stalin to stop Hitler, even in retrospect 60 years later. I just wish that we would have taken George S. Patton's advice and marched our army into Moscow as soon as the Nazis were defeated.
There is no great conspiracy to demonize Hitler and make Stalin look like an angel. Their actions speak for themselves. What possible motivation would U.S. propoganda have to make Stalin look good for the last half-century? We did have a little thing called the Cold War, I don't think that Stalin's stock was high back then. Stop looking for those black helicopters andrew. It will just make you go more insane than you already are.
Gross is dead on about political hacks. Ideolism blinds many to life's realities. It's human nature. However, politics and everyday life should be in different spheres. Because you do not agree with someone, you they are not necessarily evil or a bad person. Most people are well intentioned, but sometimes misguided or delusioned.
I do not agree with your assessment of the human race. I know that it is cool to act all pessimistic and negative towards humanity, but take a look at how far we have come in the last hundred years. One hundred years ago, we were sleeping in our shit, and dying at age 30. The main mode of transportation was a fucking horse, and a common cold was a major cause of death. If we were going to kill ourselves off, we would have done it by now! We have had nukes for 50 years, and haven't managed to destroy the world yet. Even compared to 20 years ago, when the U.S. and U.S.S.R had nukes pointed at each other, the world in in a more peaceful state. With each generation, there are those who preach that humanity is doomed, that WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!! It never fucking happens! If we are so damned evil and flawed, how come we aren't all dead yet? Civilization has lasted 7000 years and we have had nukes for 50 years, yet we are not fucking dead! We are better off as time progresses, not worse, and if you look at the big picture your fucking standard doomsday theory holds no fucking weight. God save us all.
